Curse

glacialphoenix · Jul 29, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I have a Superior Fire (and other elements) Magic rune on my ele. My monk, however, uses pure minor runes except for the Vigor rune, which is a sup vigor.

My ele survives just fine. I don't see the problem, really? Some professions just don't need a superior rune. I don't need 16 Healing Prayers or 16 Protection Prayers to heal/prot effectively, so why should I get superior runes for either outside of particular builds?

Parson Brown · Jul 29, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

@roshan: please elaborate

@jimmy: Funny how people (not you, just people) will use the exact opposite argument to justify a sup vigor...

@Conan: Obviously those are specialized builds that REQUIRE a sup. Did it feel good to post, though?

Conan the Linguist · Jul 29, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

yes. i called my mom about what i did

Thizzle · Jul 29, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I rarely use Superior runes on PvE characters unless it's a Elementalist that is using a single attribute other than energy storage.

Mouse at Large · Jul 29, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

And I run sup runed headgear as well.........please delete my Vanquisher title......*sob*.....the shame......

tmakinen · Jul 29, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

When observed completely impassionately, the fact that minor runes are the way to go when it really matters (i.e., in PvP) indicates that the runing system is not properly balanced, i.e., the malus for major and superior runes is unconditionally larger than the respective bonus.

Joe Fierce · Jul 29, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Damn, I keep missing important memos!

I vanquished Tyria and became legendary guardian and legendary cartographer 100% with H/H, without use of ursan or consumables, and everyone in my team had a superior rune. If only I'd known superiors were death sentences!

Seriously, come on. If you find PvE so hard that using superiors is the difference between living and dying, then you probably need to change your build. Superiors are completely viable in PvE.

PvP is another matter entirely.

You are my hero for today, it's a one day thing, but hey i hope it matters a little,

I personally run minors on heroes simply because they are stupid and the health detriment on them is minorly questionable (save when it's on a MM hero for count). I mean, sure in hm pve when i'm tanking i will wear a minor, but for the most part if you aren't tanking, and that little bit of health is the x-factor, you're doing something seriously wrong.

Tyla · Jul 29, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Hard breakpoints: Use 'em.

No breakpoints: Don't.

Gun Pierson · Jul 29, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I run minors most of the time, no need to use superior runes and waste 75hp. Except for 55/smite support and other specific builds ofcourse.

I understand what the OP is getting at, but epeen alrdy took over.

Joe Fierce · Jul 29, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Hard breakpoints: Use 'em.

No breakpoints: Don't.

pretty much man, pretty much.

Dr Strangelove · Jul 29, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

There would have to be signifigant changes to how superior runes work or signifigant boost to skills at 15 and 16 points. I don't see that happening so no, sup runes are going to remain merchant junk.

There are a few skills with hard breakpoints at 15 and 16. Mind blast, minions, spawning power, and expertise come to mind.

For most other stuff, there's no point.

Divinus Stella · Jul 29, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

I always use superior runes in PvE, anything that makes things faster is always good.

Vazze · Jul 29, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

PvE is not challenging enough to justify minor runes, and even if it was, you can remove DP and you can swap armor anytime (heroes: most of them have minor runes). The areas where HP could matter (ex-elite areas) were taken over by the ursans so it does not matter much what you can or can not run there.

Sniper22 · Jul 29, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Wait why does ursan need a sup rune?

gremlin · Jul 29, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

By the time people started querying the use of superior runes all my characters had 4 of each it just seemed the way to go.

Then the runes changed somewhat and of course I had all the old ones value zero.

I still run in pve with a superior rune and usually a major rune of vigor

StormDragonZ · Jul 29, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I'm fine with my Major Vigor Runes.

Trylo · Jul 29, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

wait... dont you need to have a good period to have a comeback?

i never used sups since they start, statistically it just didnt make sense. 5 damage/health for -75 max health? nty. MMs might need them, for that goofy max limit thing.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 29, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

i never used sups since they start, statistically it just didnt make sense. 5 damage/health for -75 max health? nty. MMs might need them, for that goofy max limit thing.

Well... That's the trade-off, isn't it? Do you more need health so you can survive a couple more hits than you otherwise would, or do you want to have roughly 10% bigger numbers on your skills?

For PvE I personally prefer the bigger numbers. Perhaps I die a bit more often, but on the other hand I also kill a bit faster.

But it's really a case of opinion, it's not so that you're gimped in PvE if you're using superior runes.

(Also the guy earlier in the thread who said that the fact that superiors aren't used in PvP show that the cost/benefit of runes is out of balance is completely right. In PvP the bigger numbers on skills don't make up for the greater vulnerability to spiking.)

Kanyatta · Jul 29, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan the Linguist

I use a sup rune on my terra and perma. I dont know how I could've been so stupid

If you would have read the OP, he said that there are specific builds that require sups, and terratanks and permasins are very obvious, seeing as their obviously needed. So when responding to things like this, there are 2 options.

1) Read the post and respond in a sensible way.

2) Throw reading out the window and be as much of a sarcastic jackass as possible.

You obviously chose option #2.

On topic:

I never use sups in PvE or PvP, because having an extra armor piece with a minor rune for a swap just isn't worth it. I find having +75 health is much more helpful than doing +8 damage with my attacks, or healing for +12 more each spell. Plus, I save myself 1.5k~ per character by not buying another armor piece. If PvE is that much of a problem that you need the little extra damage/healing/energy/whatever to do it, you're playing it wrong.

Trylo · Jul 29, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

i find it very useful to have more health and a shield because the enemies that do break aggro and get back to me will not attack me. maybe my opinion is skewed because as a monk i want to remain alive at all times :P

also, looking at spells like SF which undergo ~20 damage per 3 levels it makes a little more sense statistically. However, as a prot monk, +3 on an attribute generally means 1 more second on an enchant which is just not worth it.